Plumbing Issues

We are considering using Repipe Speicalists of Nevada for a Wirsbo or complete Copper repipe of our home in Sun City Anthem. This company insists that Bronze fittings vrs Brass are the best solution for the water problem. Anyone have some input after using this company?? I was told by their reps that they were invited by the SCA HOA to present their info at a meeting held at Revere's Rest.

Ron,
Is there an update to your response to Bob Stephenson (Aug. 27) where you state:
"I assume that REHAU knows the answer to that question since they had samples of the water tested, but they are not talking. Assuming it's the water, then what? I also assume that REHAU is paying the cost for Pulte to perform the repairs in Nevada."
Bill

Katrina, thank you for the suggestion on changing the hoses w/brass fittings on the washer, and the helpful reference to the article. Given the water/brass problem we have, your advice to exercise caution on those hoses seems quite appropriate since those hoses are always under pressure.

On a related topic, I think the rubber hoses for my washing machine have brass fittings. I plan to change them to stainless steel braided hoses with stainless steel fittings to prevent rust, and leaks. I came across this helpful info at www.fixitnow.com. Here's a direct link to the article:

Scroll down to the post dated October 26, 2005
"Is your washer a flood waiting to happen?"

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:Agv2YXd6fYsJ:www.zenzoidman.com/category/imported/+washer+dryer+brass+fittings+failure&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=8&gl=us

Our home in Black Mountain Village was closed in Dec 2004 and has Rahu plumbing. Where are they (Pulte contractors) in doing the Rehau repairs at this time or has it even started? Also, does anyone have any concerns about the Pulte contract on the Rehau site that must be signed in order to have the repairs done? It appears to be a situation of either sign or don't have the repairs done by Pulte. I have tried to call the "hotline" number on the concerning the schedule several times and have not received a return call.
Thanks

I have some of the same questions that were raised by Tony Bell on Aug. 27Th. One of Ron Johnson's articles said that replacing only the end fittings might be a possibility, providing that the underground pipes were not damaged and that the slab was stable. Since it is almost impossible to dig a hole anywhere in my yard without a pick and since my home and floor show almost no cracks or signs of settling after 6 years I would like to understand more about this option. I'm scheduled for a repipe by Delta in November, but I'm not sure now that I really need a complete repipe. For me this is not mainly an issue of saving money. I want to do what's necessary to resolve the problem, but I don't believe in fixing things that don't need fixing. Often that just creates new problems. Can anyone out there help clarify my thinking and/or direct me to someone who can. Thanks

Terry, the REHAU website is: www.vegasplumbingfix.com

You will need to enter the following PASSWORD in lower case letters: vegas

Clarence, while I believe that some of Solera homes were plumbed with Kitec, you can make that determination yourself. To make that determination, go into the garage and open the electrical panel door. On the inside of that door, there should be a sticker. The sticker may say: KITEC, REHAU OR WIRSBO OR IT MAY BE BLANK.
If there are any PEX plumbing pipes in the attic, then you do not have KITEC.

Can anyone tell me if Solera At Anthem homes have any of these types of fittings?

Can anyone give me the current address for Pulte's REHAU website?

Bill, that was the word from Pulte a few weeks back. Something has changed in the interim, but what I do not know. Then I heard that Pulte would be making their intentions known sometime in mid September. Whether or not this delay is a function of ongoing negotiations with the court and class counsel is unknown. Also unknow is whether Pulte is holding out for word from their appeal to the Nevada Supreme Court on whether the district court has jurisdiction. We just do not know at this time.

Hi Ron, A few weeks back you stated that Pulte had indicated that they were mailing out the balance of the kitec checks.. To date we have not received ours and are wondering if there are any other kitec people around who are in the same boat..

Harold, the only available source for information about REHAU repair effort is contained on Pulte's REHAU website. I thought I read they were going to begin in 2008, but maybe some other REHAU homeowners may know more about that.

Can anyone tell me when Pulte will get around to informing homeowners when the REHAU problem will be rectified? I have a 2003 built home and have been waiting six months plus for a response from Pulte as to when the repairs will be done?? Contacts with Pulte have proved to be fruitless.

Can anyone tell me when Pulte will get around to informing homeowners when the REHAU problem will be rectified? I have a 2003 built home and have been waiting six months plus for a response from Pulte as to when the repairs will be done?? Contacts with Pulte have proved to be fruitless.

Why am i not hearing any mention of just replacing the fittings. Even the city inspectors have told me that they see no problem with the kitec pex, just the fittings.
Also, I see very little damage on the cold water piping, so why replace it. With an estimated buildup in the cold water pipes of 5%, it seems the cold water side would not be a problem for 40 plus years. Many homeowners are not replacing the sprinker line. And the hose bib lines seem fine also, as do the cold water fittings at the fixtures.
Another matter: the hot water recycle line. Is it needed? A direct run from the water heater to the kitchen and another to the bathrooms (they are usually back to back) would bring hot water fairly fast with no recycle line needed. Dollar savings on gas, plus no heat through the floor that makes the A/C work harder, plus less 'dezincification' caused by the constant hot water flowing thru the fittings, plus no need for the recycle pump that will eventually need replacement.
Seems like the problem is being blown out of proportion, and that there are good solutions that are easier, less messier, and cheaper to fix. Tony Bell

Bob, while I may believe the problem rests with the water, and while I understand that the City of Henderson may be in denial and is not interested in pursuring the issue (at least publicly), I not sure where that will get us without more definitive answers. I assume that REHAU knows the answer to that question since they had samples of the water tested, but they are not talking. Assuming it's the water, then what? I also assume that REHAU is paying the cost for Pulte to perform the repairs in Nevada.

Hey Ron - you said "When I discussed this issue with the City's water treatment department, they declined any knowledge or responsibility for his problem, suggesting that the proplem, as far as they know, rests with the manufacturer of the fittings, i.e., bad fittings and not bad water."

But here's my really obvious question - why is Las Vegas one of the only municipalities in North America that has this problem then?

If it were a manufacturer problem, it would stand to reason we'd be hearing about class action lawsuits all over the country. But not only is the problem ONLY in Nevada, it seems to be common amongst Kitec, Rehau, Wirsbo, Moen, etc. etc. etc.

So the question I have is - do you really believe the city when they say it's a manufacturing problem? Or do you suspect there's an inherent problem with the water?

Ron:

Because of your new policy allowing us to comment, I was able to contact James Diss this morning and he came over within a short period of time and fixed all three toilets within twenty minutes. He has said that he often helps people with these problems and that anyone could contact him at his e-mail, which he is allowing me to post: jwdiss@bigplanet.com.

Thanks Ron.

Getting back to you regarding your comments ro me of 8/24/07: Today, I checked back with my repiper (Mr. Rooter/Ace Duraflow Company) and they confirmed that the Vanguard Pex with Crimpsert fittings I chose for my repiping were used to transition PEX to copper, and I have the 1/2" at stubouts, 3/4" at the water heater and 1" at the main intake line, and the same fittings were used in the attic and throughout my house (Bostonian). The angle stops were replaced with Chicago Brass Company chrome ball-valve angle stops. Furthermore, my detailed contract states that "the re-pipe and replumb was done to the entire house in Vanguard/PEX Piping and Vanguard/PEX fittings with a 25-year warranty on pipe and fittings. The price ($7,800) included all labor, material, permits, and taxes plus a 5-year labor warranty on all work. I was also assured that I did not have the Kitec decincification to worry about as I do not have any brass.

James, how about posting that fix?

Hi Marcia Kosterka, I have a fix for toilets that do not flusk. Contact me at my email and I will give you my #. Jim

I have Wirsbo plumbing in my home. My immediate plumbing problem is the following:

I have had consistent problems with flushing my toilets. They can be completely void of ANY material and they still may or may nor flush. The toilets are standard and not upgrades. I have had Pulte out here at least three times and the final answer was, "Unless you upgrade to a better toilet, you will continue to have this problem." I am wondering if anyone else has experienced the same problem.

We own a Madison (Villa)
Yes, by now the Board again has made us feel like red headed step childen. But that's not the subject.
We have been waiting, to hear about the problems as things progress. Now I am confused. Use Wirsbo or don't use Wirsbo?
A month ago it was the produce to go with.

We all must thank you for your help and enlightment.
Tom

Sandra, if that were the case, we would all have a whole house filter installed after the main line. While some homeowners have done so, I am told that whole house filters are not designed or intended to address the dezincification issue we are all faced with. Whatever it is about the nature of the water that causes dezincification, the particles caught by such a filter are not known to be part of that problem. Assuming that the issue is the chemical makeup of the water, the water will merely pass through such a filter.

Ron Johnson wrote in his report "As a general rule, household plumbing fixtures, typically Moen, were not designed to hinder dezincification. So, to the extent that your fixtures were manufactured using a standard brass alloy, you can anticipate that over time, some evidence of dezincification will occur within the valves of those fixtures."

My question: Is this why my shower hot/cold water control has failed twice in three years so that I cannot get hot water???

Would a "whole house filter" solve the dezincification problems we are having??

Bob, an additive would be a great solution if that would do it. The water may be greater contributing problem than an additive can address. When I discussed this issue with the City's water treatment department, they declined any knowledge or responsibility for his problem, suggesting that the proplem, as far as they know, rests with the manufacturer of the fittings, i.e., bad fittings and not bad water. REHAU secured and tested numerous water samples but they have refused to share that information with us. In the end, we know very little.

Ron, given your new information that all manufacturers brass fittings are dezincifying, would it be reasonable to assume that our plumbing problems are water chemistry related?

And if so, is there a safe additive that can be used by the city water authority that would slow down or stop dezincification?

Susan, no secret here. Yes, I am the author of the Plumbing Status Report article. In trying out this new interactive format, I incorrectly assumed that others would know that I was the author. Sorry for the confusion.

Ron, are you the author of the report, "A Plumbing Status Report on Sun City Anthem"? If not, who is the source, please?

East, if your home was plumbed with Wirsbo and you are able to take and send me a digital image of the fittings you describe, I would be grateful. Can you please explain how metal fatigue was exhibited? My email address is rljohnson32@cox.net.

I have a home in Black Mountain Village and have noticed brass metal fatique in fittings used in my home which was built in 2006. Dezincafication or not every home is going to need to be inspected for the fact of old fittings thrown in to supplement a shortage of brass connedtions.

Myra, re REHAU, I assume you completed the required form to get your repair performed. Since they started with 2003 built homes, it will take some time before they get to 2005 built homes. Remember, if there is demonstrated evidence of a leak in the manifold (located in the attic), you will go the top of the top of the list.

W.P. Shortly, I will post our (favorable) report of the work performed by T&C. The one question I would ask a contractor is how do they plan to address the dezincification issue insofar as the choice of pipe, fittings, valves, recirculating line valves, and the water supply line.

Well, first of all you should NOT have elected to use SHARKBITE connections. Wirsbo is now the standard for many jurisdictions in the country-INCLUDING CALIFORNIA, (not specifically approved by California), but approved by many local jurisdictions such as Oceanside (CA), Ventura County, etc.

The choice should have been (considering you did your homework), is:

EP Fittings (Engineered Plastic)
C-316 Industrial Red Brass Fittings (less than 9% zinc)

I had to be my own on site Manager (which was easy for me as I have 3 CA contractor licenses) and CHECKED EVERYTHING! I still had numerous problems with ALD (an international company) which I cannot recommend.

I made sure all the pipe was insulated, secured, and all damaged insulation was replaced because I saw "they" weren't going to do the job I expected. Also, if you use Wirsbo-ASK FOR THE INSTALLER CERTIFICATION CARD. All it is, is a 4 hour class to provide some means of education in the installation of the product by the the installer-which ALD DID NOT DO. No, I was not happy about that so I had to watch them perform and verify (with questions) all the time. Sad, isn't it....and the contractors board doesn't give a darn.

I HAVE NOT SEEN ANY ARTICLES ON HOW YOUR OWN REPLACEMENT PLUMBING JOB ENDED. WERE YOU SATISFIED WITH THE END RESULTS FROM THE COMPANY YOU SELECTED?

I WOULD LIKE TO GET SEVERAL PLUMBING COMPANIES TO GIVE ME AN ESTIMATE. CAN YOU GIVE ME A COMPLETE LIST OF WHAT QUESTIONS I SHOULD ASK?

THANK YOU.

Thank you for your quick response and suggesting I contact the Pulte Customer Service Department, I'll do that Monday morning. YOur research and assistance to all residents in Sun City Anthem on this and many other issues of concern is appreciated.

Our home was built in 2005. We have Rehau plumbing. We have received communication from Pulte that they are aware of plumbing issues. I was told they are working on homes built in 2003. When will they get to us?

Irene, I am a little unclear where expactly the pollyalloy insert fittings are used. Were those fittings used to transition from PEX to copper pipe, whether 1/2" at stub outs, or 3/4" at the water heater, and 1" at the main intake line, or were those fittings used in the attic?

You raise an interesting question about the potential for SharkBite fittings to hinder dezincification, compared to other fittings.

I chose Vanguard Pex with the Crimpsert polyalloy insert fittings for my repiping, which was done in February/March 2007. Therefore, am I correct in assuming,I should not be at risk for dezincification since I did not select the standard Wirsbo repiping with the Sharkbite fitting that was done on Anthem homes during this early period. The lack of information and concern by Pulte to leave each affected homeowner to 'flounder' in the sea of what repiping system to choose drove homeowners to do what they thought would 'cure' their pipe problems, but it seems as though we are back to 'square one.'

Mary, at this point, your first efforts should be directed at getting the attention of the Developer by contacting their Customer Service Department to see whether or how they propose to address the matter of the Wirsbo fittings and related dezincification issues. Their number is: 914-4864.

The homes in Desert Sky Village were completed in 2006. It's my understanding, from the sticker posted in the garage, that WIRSBO fixtures were used. Is the 2,000 additional homes that will face problems in our village? If so, what are your suggestions? Thank you.

I have a home built in 2006 that was plumbed with Wirsbo. If what you say is true and my plumbing system is at risk, what should I do?